I’ve written quite a bit about how an anti vaccination culture in some Islamic countries has been preventing the final elimination of the disease Polio. I’ve written about how various anti vaccination conspiracy theories promulgated by religious leaders, sometimes with the assistance of Western anti vaccination lunatics, have condemned thousands of children in Northern Nigeria, Pakistan and Afghanistan to death and disablement.
However, I missed a bit of news from August of last year that I should have passed on but didn’t because I missed it. This news requires a correction and in particular a correction about Nigeria. That news is that Polio is now extinct in Africa. The last vestige of Polio has now been eradicated from Northern Nigeria. This means that the only two places in the wild where Polio can now be found are in Pakistan and Afghanistan. This is a magnificent achievement.
This eradication of Polio from the entire continent of Africa has been achieved by vaccination. If Polio can be exterminated in Pakistan and Afghanistan then it’s more than likely that never again will a child fall ill from this terrible illness and either die or live a life of permanent disability. Whilst there is the remote possibility that there might be an unobserved pocket of Polio infection, to all intents and purposes Africa is now Polio-free. Comprehensive vaccination programmes for infants in future generations should ensure that even if Polio is brought into Africa by a traveller from the benighted lands of Pakistan or Afghanistan, it will not ravage the population like it did in previous years.
Polio was a nightmare for my parents, grandparents and previous generations until vaccination wiped it out in Britain. The last case of Polio in the UK was in 1985 and that wasn’t I understand an infection that was acquired in the UK. In Britain Polio is a nightmare no more, it’s gone and now it’s gone from Africa as well. We should rejoice in that.
Screw you anti-vaxxers. Your delusions about vaccines have not contributed one iota to the elimination of Polio from Africa or anywhere else for that matter. In fact the ravings of the anti vax cultists might have made the job of eliminating Polio in Africa more difficult because people there might have believed their bullshit. All that the anti vax cultists have done is allow previously terrible diseases like Measles to rear their ugly heads again as we’ve seen in America where the anti vax cult has turned the USA from a Measles free country into one where parents of kids who can’t be vaccinated for medical reasons have to live in fear of Measles again. Instead it is science and safe and readily available vaccinations have wiped out this horrible disease from an entire continent and not only that, but from a continent with considerable economic, social and political challenges.
Proving once again, that Pakistan is still, a shithole.
Sadly yes.
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about anti vaxxers.
Many people are not listening or seeking out information from anti vaxxers in the same way they are not listening to the government trying to persuade them to have the covid jab.
They are making their own minds up whatever their reasons.
I feel a bit uncomfortable with you saying about people spreading measles due to not taking up the vaccine, yet instead of blaming anti vaxxers you should read the stories on the internet about how some children changed overnight almost, after having the MMR vaccine. Better yet, talk to the parents who went through it.
No one wants to catch a disease. It is a parents worst nightmare should their children catch a disease yet instead of pointing the finger you should take a more understanding view of why people are wary.
Coronavirus is more deadly in the elderly, those with illnesses, and people of colour. As I understand it the majority of elderly people and those with illnesses have taken up the covid vaccine.
With people of colour you need someone like Sadiq Khan or someone similar to make a statement saying he understands the reasons why people are reluctant to take up the vaccine yet no one is dropping dead from the vaccine, only covid. Or something to that effect.
For the young and fearless you need someone who is respected like a footballer who will accept the vaccine and promote this fact.
I will have to think about it some more so you will have to bare with me. I have been tired of late but I will try to have a moment of clarity at some point.
“You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about anti vaxxers.”
I’m afraid that I do. It goes back to the 1970’s when the parents of an infant cousin nearly lost him because they bought into a scare story about whooping cough vaccine. He wasn’t vaccinated and nearly died. Also I remember smallpox being eradicated and am old enough to remember kids with Polio.
“Many people are not listening or seeking out information from anti vaxxers in the same way they are not listening to the government trying to persuade them to have the covid jab.
They are making their own minds up whatever their reasons.”
The anti vaxxers are very good at scaring people for no good reason. I have enough science knowledge to detect bullshit and I’m detecting a lot of bullshit from places like Natural News.
“I feel a bit uncomfortable with you saying about people spreading measles due to not taking up the vaccine, yet instead of blaming anti vaxxers you should read the stories on the internet about how some children changed overnight almost, after having the MMR vaccine. Better yet, talk to the parents who went through it.”
Well that’s what happened in the USA and the UK. These nations were measles free until the anti vaxxers persuaded parents not to vaccinate. I see what you mean but correlation does not automatically mean causation.
“No one wants to catch a disease. It is a parents worst nightmare should their children catch a disease yet instead of pointing the finger you should take a more understanding view of why people are wary.”
But when people are wary for no real reason other than the false information put out by charlatans in the anti vax movement then the anti vaxxers need to be called out.
“Coronavirus is more deadly in the elderly, those with illnesses, and people of colour. As I understand it the majority of elderly people and those with illnesses have taken up the covid vaccine.”
Good. My worries about the covid vaccine have been to a large part removed by learning about the science behind it and seeing people much sicker than I am and much more unfit than I am having no problems with the vax.
With people of colour you need someone like Sadiq Khan or someone similar to make a statement saying he understands the reasons why people are reluctant to take up the vaccine yet no one is dropping dead from the vaccine, only covid. Or something to that effect.
This has already been done by a collection of Black and Asian celebrities.
For the young and fearless you need someone who is respected like a footballer who will accept the vaccine and promote this fact.
Agree there wholeheartedly.
I will have to think about it some more so you will have to bare with me. I have been tired of late but I will try to have a moment of clarity at some point.
No problem.
@FH
Going off on anti-vaxxers in current climate is mendacious as Gov’ts, msm etc classing anyone refusing the Covid Jab as anti-vaxxers. I side with @F
Note: Covid Jab – not vaccine as FDA classes them as Experimental Drugs, not vaccines. In UK they remain unlicensed. The drugs are officially in Phase 3 Trial.
Are patients told this? No. Thus, they have not given Informed Consent
See:
https://lockdownsceptics.org/careful-what-we-wish-for/
and
https://lockdownsceptics.org/complaint-to-gmc-about-mandatory-vaccines/
and
https://lockdownsceptics.org/2021/02/26/latest-news-297/#a-gp-protests-no-jab-no-job
First of all anti vaxxers are a massive public health problem. They are why awful diseases that once were not seen in the USA are coming back.
My wife was told that her vaccine was emergency licenced and was in phase three trial when she went for her vaccination.
Maybe you have a point about those who are influenced by the conspiraloons refusing the covid vaccine not being anti vaxxers per se. However there are an awful lot of members of the antivax cult out there influencing people so it is fair to say that there is a link between anti vaxxing as a philosophy and refusal of the covid vaccine.
I have had the little grey cells working and this is just an idea but it may gain more trust with the public.
From what I gather many people have been let down and feel lied to by governments, authorities, medical specialists and the media and absolutely no one likes the wool being pulled over their eyes. Nearly everyone has a story to tell over ‘twisted truths’ whether that’s from personal experience or watching the likes of Blair and Diana Princess of Wales to name a couple.
It has come to a point where people have thought about things that have happened and now refuse to get what they see as sucked in.
To change this we need someone who is not in government, nor a celebrity, nor someone who would gain financially, but someone who is respected, at the top of their game and who people listen to. Someone to make a heartfelt plea just because they care.
I can only think at this moment someone like the Queen or Prince Charles. I know this is probably not the best of times but I really don’t see any other way.
They would need to go on TV at prime time, say after the 6 o’clock news ( with the news programme containing determined facts over coronavirus and how the covid vaccine works and gives protection along with a link to factual information the public can read up about and find out where they can get the vaccine) so people have more confidence.
So you never know FH, if one of the royal family reads your blog perhaps you can forward the idea.
A little speech along the lines of the following would be ideal ( although I am sure someone could write it better).
“I understand some of you may lack trust in governments, authorities, medical professionals and the media and we as a country must build back your trust and respect by demonstrating honesty, justice and compassion. It is understood that we need to make a start to improve things. To do this I am asking that you take the time to listen to my genuine request.
I am imploring to those of you yet to make up your minds, that if you can, seriously consider having a covid vaccine.
Not only are the vaccines now proven to work, they will save lives. Personally I would like as many people as possible to be protected so they can go on with their lives without fear of the future. This can only happen if we all work together and stand united against one of the most dangerous worldwide pandemics of our time.
We all need to have hope for the future and I want every person to know that they matter.”
I can sometimes write better but usually only after half a gallon of booze so this will have to do.
Or maybe they could get one of their professional writers to write something better.
Like I said it’s a long shot but maybe it’s better than doing nothing. Gotta start somewhere I suppose.
A fine idea F, but I believe what’s really needed is the withdrawal of the indemnity clauses.
An experimental concoction – not a vaccine – with no responsibility if things go wrong from the manufacturer, NHS or government, is what’s worrying many people.
There have been 1000s of deaths worldwide, soon after receiving their shots, in otherwise healthy individuals, some of whom were medics. No explanations yet – allegedly they’re all coincidences…
I am NOT anti-vaccines – both of my children received all the usual ones, as have I. But these rushed-out and only partially-tested concoctions are not like that.
Yes there should be some form of reassurance about the safety of the vaccine and that should include guaranteed payouts if someone was injured by them for some reason. I keep hearing this ‘thousands of deaths worldwide’ trope and when I follow the trails of the claims it always seems to come back to Natural News, Lifesite News or some anti vax publication. Further digging on real science sites etc debunks the NN and LS antivax claims. Here are just two of the widely circulated ‘death by vax’ stories that have been debunked
https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/12/did-you-hear-a-nurse-died-after-covid-19-vaccine-its-not-true.html
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/did-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-cause-fatal-case-of-itp/
Prince Charles? Effing seriously, Prince Effing Charles? Advocate of homeopathy, climate catastrophe, hypocritical enviroloon, that Prince Charles?
You are right to point out that people don’t trust the government or the media, almost everything that they say is a lie. So, on the one occasion that they actually tell the truth, why would anyone believe them?
@ Stonyground
I think he is the best person for the job. I know he can’t overstep the mark at the moment but I am sure that very soon he will be showing his mettle.
I think if he was to take it up, this is the perfect opportunity to allow people to again see what a caring leader he will be.
Some leading governments have tried hard for people yet they are sometimes let down by spin.
I feel a bit sorry for Boris and co as they will most likely be remembered in history just for the coronavirus pandemic although there is still time for this government to get the country back up and running and to make it even better than anything we’ve known.
We shall see.
I used to be a Boris Johnson supporter but over time I’ve come tosee a lot wrong with him. He’s too easily influenced by advisors and vacillates when making decisions. I wonder if things would have been different if we’d had Rees-Mogg as PM?
Irony: many in mum’s retirement flat block are too scared to go out due to Gov & msm fear propaganda – thus they will not attend ‘vaccine centre’ appt. Manager is trying to secure a nurse visit same as he eventually achieved for ‘Flu vax
@FH
If peeps are swayed by anti-vax, anti-5G and flat earthers, fine by me and Darwin award awaits
Glad your wife informed, my mum and stepfather were not. Nor was I in NHS Appt letter. Furthermore, msm never mentions experimental or trial
A Piers and Dr Death rant – Dr Death needs to read the oath he took
youtube.com/watch?v=FFHAZtasLFw
Deaths? You need to refine your search techniques. It’s tens of thousands worldwide. Some care homes >50% died. See also Gibraltar spike.
FDA/CDC are listing USA ones, there is a UK MHRA one too and submitting Yellow Cards encouraged
https://coronavirus-yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/
@F
HM the Queen has already broadcast a Gov’t and Ofcom approved message:
Err, vaccines are to protect You, not Others – same as crash helmet, seat-belt
Charles? The green nutter in favour of WEF Great Reset? Are you mad?
I sometimes wonder whether the fear has been ramped up too much and that those who should be getting medical treatment have become too scared to go out and get it? I believe that government messaging has been confused at times.
Agree that Darwin might take care of the flat earthers. The problem I see is that those who are swayed by the rantings of anti vax nutcases might not get vaccinated and therefore help to continue the current nightmare.
It seem that giving accurate information at vaccine sites is patchy to say the least. This needs tightening up.
Re the Gibraltar situation when I dig all the sources claiming this are anti vax or ‘alternative medicine’ or conspiraloon sites. Do you have a better more credible source? Also with care homes we must be careful not to confuse correlation with causation as they contain many people who may succumb to other things and the administration of the vaccine is incidental and not a cause. Same applies to the MHRA information the deaths are among those with pre existing conditions it will need further study to ascertain whether the vaccine is linked to the deaths or whether the deaths are coincidental. There have been vaccine problems in the past such as the deaths of babies following BCG injections in the 1930’s but these were not down to the vaccine being wrong in itself but human error that allowed live TB bacteria into the vaccine and not attenuated ones.
It’s better that the Queen gave out this message as other members of her family such as the Prince of Wales are not well liked by the public.
I may be wrong but the only bit I know of the Queen talking about the vaccine was when she was in conversation with other people and this was only on the internet.
Someone needs to address the people directly and on prime time television. That way they are more likely to take notice.
Most of the people I have spoken to have a lot of respect for the Royal family. Admittedly I usually talk more with people that can think for themselves, but when the subject has arisen in general conversation they say how they have done the Duke of Edinburgh award and how they believe Prince Charles has done a lot of good with the Prince’s Trust. A friend of mine from years ago could not have started her business without a grant from the Prince’s Trust and she did very well.
It is a shame the business of what the first marriage created and it is a tragedy that the Prince is a misunderstood character but the Diana thing is only believed by those who don’t think for themselves.
The only criticism I have of Prince Charles is he should wear navy blue suits more. The colour brings out his eyes and makes the wearer look more confident and in charge.
So in conclusion I think Prince Charles is well liked but I think he just doesn’t realise it.
Granted that the Prince of Wales has done a good job with the Prince’s Trust. But the Prince’s first marriage and the allegations about his conduct that came out after it continue to cast long shadows in the minds of many in the public. His very close association with the extremes of the Green movement, which by its nature is a leftist/elitist one, has also tarnished his image as his pronouncements on these matters have given him the aura of a person who wants advantages for himself but will quite happily damn the little people. Then there is the interference in government with his personal letters to ministers and his willingness to be opinionated that also get up people’s noses.
I believe that Prince Charles is less popular with the public than either he or you may think he is. I’m a reluctant Monarchist because as far as I’m concerned the alternative which could be President Clegg or President Blair or some other character is infinitely worse than the sort of constitutional monarchy that we have at the moment. My worry is that King Charles III (or King George VII if that’s the regnal name he chooses) may on becoming King not take his duty to be impartial and apolitical seriously and will continue to make various pronouncements that could cause Republicanism to resurface as a live political cause and that may end up with the aforementioned political horrors of a ‘President Clegg’ or ‘President Blair’ with all that goes with it.
Well, only Prince Charles can rectify his character with the public. I am sure he will be able to do it.
Prince Charles’ reign will be a good one. I expect that like the majority of historic reigns his time will be judged after he has departed this world.
I do not see any change regarding having a monarchy revert to republicanism. This will happen sometime during the end of the next century. Pluto in Leo will reform the monarchy in some way. This does not necessarily mean it will end then but it will have to be investigated on how it operates due to something happening around that time. Alternatively around that time the country could very well revert to republicanism but it’s for future generations to worry about that.
@FH
You “wonder” if the fear has been ramped up too much?
Wonder? Really? My flabber is gasted
On vaccine, Covid etc try reading reputable sites – google of little use
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@F
You too need to be more aware and refine search technique
On YT: Queen vaccine
https://youtu.be/Q-tAzZ2ztCU?t=83
Not quite sure what you mean Pcar.
I said the Queen spoke about the vaccine on the internet and while she was talking to other people.
This is what you appear to have confirmed.
What I feel needs doing is to address the public directly on prime time television because let’s face it, people only look up on the internet what they want to whereas most of the people I know are having their tea at around 6ish and usually have the television on.
It’s really the only way I can think of to persuade people to get a vaccine.
Pcar
I’ll try to take your points in turn. Sorry about the delay in replying but I try not to do (but not always succeed) to ‘do’ politics and similar stuff from Friday night to Saturday night on what is my Sabbath. Occasionally I get it wrong but I don’t want to tempt fate by doing it too often LOL. After all, I don’t want a divine thunderbolt to spring out of my keyboard and do me in. It’s gone sunset where I am now so here I am.
“@FH
You “wonder” if the fear has been ramped up too much?”
I think that we have two competing fears here and two lots of fearmongers,the govt and also the anti vaxxers/ tin foil hat types. There is an argument in favour of the idea that the govt has ramped up the fearmongering too much but there is also a counter argument that when dealing with a relatively unknown disease some form of caution and indeed fear might be justified. However, as a long term critic of anti vaxxers and a long term proponent of vaccination as a method of preventing disease I’m also very wise to the various wiles and tricks that this anti vax crowd pull. As a science writer said recently when it comes to vaccines and the covid situation ‘everything old is new again’, by which they mean the same sorts of unfounded scare stories that the anti vaxxers have used against MMR and other childhood vaccinations are being used in the context of covid vaccines. Aluminium is the new mercury and prion disease is the new autism when it comes to anti vaxxer scare stories. Whilst I admit that some vaccines by their very nature pose safety problems, the traditional and formerly used Smallpox vaccine for example can trigger a relatively small number of issues with safety when the injection site is scratched and the person then touches their eyes or an immunosuppressed person,it’s still not as big a risk as getting smallpox. See here for smallpox virus data https://www.fda.gov/media/75800/download
Wonder? Really? My flabber is gasted
LOL. My issue is I’ve been presented with new information and because of that information I’ve had to revise my views. I still think the govt has made grave errors on managing this issue and some politicians have exploited it for their own ends, but the science info is what has changed my mind especially on the issue of the vaccine.
.
On vaccine, Covid etc try reading reputable sites – google of little use
First of all I don’t use Google as a search engine because of this entity’s known political bias. I use Duck Duck Go instead. I’d like to know what sites you would consider to be reputable?
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What is Happening With Mortality in Israel?
A story has been doing the rounds in the past few weeks that the mainstream media are understandably nervous to touch. At Lockdown Sceptics we have been keeping an eye on it to see how it develops. It began with an article published on February 11th (with an update on March 2nd) that asks why mortality in Israel appears, on official data, to be so much higher among the vaccinated than the unvaccinated in the first few weeks after the first vaccine dose.
Israel National News explains further.
A front-page article appeared in the FranceSoir newspaper about findings on the Nakim website regarding what some experts are calling “the high mortality caused by the vaccine.”
The paper interviews Aix-Marseille University Faculty of Medicine Emerging Infectious and Tropical Diseases Unit’s Dr. Hervé Seligmann and engineer Haim Yativ about their research and data analysis. They claim that Pfizer’s shot causes “mortality hundreds of times greater in young people compared to mortality from coronavirus without the vaccine, and dozens of times more in the elderly, when the documented mortality from coronavirus is in the vicinity of the vaccine dose, thus adding greater mortality from heart attack, stroke, etc.”…
Dr Niall McCrae has written about the story in Unity News Network
https://lockdownsceptics.org/2021/03/05/latest-news-304/#what-is-happening-with-mortality-in-israel
OK I’ve been doing some digging on this story over the last few days and into Dr Seligmann’s background and I can’t see any of my usual science and evidence based medicine sources and sites citing him. Maybe they’ve not picked up on his claims yet? Similarly he hasn’t yet turned up on Quackwatch, which is a good sign. He does have a background in biology and genetics but not in virology or is an expert in vaccinations. His Phd thesis was on the regrowth of tails in lizards.
However, there’s stuff about this story that makes me really uneasy as to whether it should be completely trusted or not. A long DDG search doesn’t find any entity other than anti vax or alternative medicine outlets citing this study. That’s not good. You would have expected a study with this sort of data and with these sorts of implications to be picked up by other more reputable peer reviewed journals, but it has not. It’s only being picked up and promoted by the anti vax crowd.
Also,when I searched on Metabunk what came back was stuff that even more damaged my confidence in this story. One of the senior contributors on Metabunk said that they were having difficulty tracking down the primary sources for Seligmann’s figures. Again this should raise a lot of suspicions. Metabunk also threw up information about deaths following this vaccine and the deaths look more and more coincidental and not linked to a vaccine that had had extensive human trials before release.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/need-debunking-experimental-vaccine-death-rate-for-israels-elderly-40-times-higher-than-covid-19-deaths.11642/
Also some of the figures from VAERS that show the vast majority of deaths were in the 79+ age group and were in assisted living / care homes also fortifies the idea that we are there might be a correlation with the vaccine but it’s more than likely that the vaccine was not the cause. If there was a reaction that led to any deaths then it is helpful to remember that these are people who may well have died shortly anyway as they were bodily weak. They would certainly have been carried off by a covid infection that a younger healthier person might have survived. The vaccine was a risk but a covid infection was maybe seen as a greater risk.
I dug down into the Nakim website and even though my Hebrew is not brilliant there was enough on there in English to give me doubts as to its probity. Whilst I admit that there is a problem with corruption in Israel, the publisher of Nakim seems overly obsessed by it to the extent that they are alleging that there are ‘secret rulers of Israel’, something that looks suspiciously to me like conspiraloon thinking. It reminded me very much of a ‘six degrees of separation’ conspiracy theory put out by a guy named Gordon Bowden which I discussed here: https://www.fahrenheit211.net/2019/02/14/another-british-yellow-vest-washout/ Someone who believes that there are ‘secret rulers of Israel’ a country notorious for loud and open political debate and a widespread engagement with politics, doesn’t strike me as someone to unquestionably trust. Arutz Sheva (Israel National News) is a site I rely on when it comes to reports of Islamic terror in Israel but I always bear in mind that it is a specifically Religious Zionist publication and although I’m a Zionist myself I do have to recognise that it does put its own spin on stories. It is reliable in some areas of its reporting but may not be so on others.
I’d like to add that Judaism is a religion that respects and reveres life. This is so to such an extent that Jews are allowed to abandon nearly every one of the 613 commandments of Judaism in order to save a life. If a Jew sees someone collapse on the street he or she is allowed to drive the person to the hospital if there is no other way of getting that person’s life saved,even if it does mean breaking the prohibition on driving on the Sabbath. Similarly if there was some rare occasion where a pregnant woman needed something that would help her and her unborn child survive and that thing was forbidden in Judaism, such as a bacon and cheese sandwich for example,then she is allowed to have it. All the major religious authorities and Rabbonim in Israel are saying to Jewish Israelis to get vaccinated, some Rabbis have refused to marry unvaccinated couples despite it being a commandment to rejoice with the bridegroom an the bride. If these religious authorities who are more learned and much more strictly observant than I am (I don’t require or demand that my everyday salt or herbs or frozen veg carries a Rabbinical seal on the package as some Jews do) can say ‘get vaccinated’ then as far as I’m concerned they have been presented with sufficient evidence that the vaccine is both effective and safe. Some Rabbonim are also doctors as are some other religious functionaries such as Mohelim who are also trained urologists as was the Mohel who circumcised my son.
Dr McCrae is a mental health specialist and has nothing to do with epidemiology, molecular biology or is an expert on vaccination. He’s not even a data or statistics specialist, therefore his opinion on vaccines and vaccine efficacy may be very much outside his speciality. Also there are some questions about his personal conduct that give me pause to take him too seriously on the subject of vaccines. He was involved in a well publicised incident where he poked a flagpole at a Remain campaigner. Now I do not like or agree with Remaniacs but I wouldn’t wave a flagpole in the face of one.
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“What We’ve Learned from Israel’s Covid Vaccine Program”
Dr Gilbert Berdine on Mises Wire discusses the recent New England Journal of Medicine paper on Israel’s trial of the Pfizer vaccine and concludes that the benefit of vaccination is small and unlikely to be cost-effective
https://mises.org/wire/what-weve-learned-israels-covid-vaccine-program
We will not know whether covid vaccination has been fully cost effective until this crisis is over. However vaccination is certainly cheaper than hospitalisation and it’s more cost effective than losing valuable economic capital by way of unnecessary and preventable deaths.
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“The moral debate over Covid jabs for children”
Katy Balls in the Spectator on the alarming direction of travel in Government thinking
“…The fatality rate for under-20s with Covid-19 is estimated at 0.003 per cent.
But the argument in government is changing. If children are vaccinated against Covid-19, it will help build up herd immunity for the entire population. A vaccine for your son would not primarily be for his sake, but for his country’s. Rather than the grown-ups looking after the kids, the reverse would be true…”
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-moral-debate-over-covid-jabs-for-children
There is a moral debate that needs to be had about the vaccination of children. We know that childhood vaccination for other diseases is both effective and safe. Vaccination against Polio whilst it might have a 1:1000,000 risk of an adverse reaction, it’s less of a risk to health and life than getting Polio. But we don’t know whether this covid vaccine is an appropriate one for children. More research needs to be done on this. This is a problem that the Israelis are wrestling with as this is a country that has a lot of children compared to the UK 28% as opposed to 18% in the UK. Israeli doctors and scientists are worried that unvaccinated children may become a pond in which covid mutates and maybe worsens. Although many viruses mutate into less harmful forms an unvaccinated cohort of children might also be from where a worse form of covid originates. Any vaccination of children would have to wait until a child safe covid vaccine is developed and approved. With a lot more children in their population than has the UK the possibility that a new covid strain of increased lethality and infectious potential emerging in children is vexing some of Israel’s biggest brains.
@FH
Sabbath – NP
No they are not. The only risk is to unvaccinated, not to vaccinated public
Anti-vax? No, pro freedom of choice, the anti-vax label is ‘hate speech’ – especially on Covid Jab. By implying all refusing Covid Jab are nutters you are evil. Many Doctors, Dentists, Vets, Nurses are saying No (20%-40%) – are they nutters?
I always have two simple questions for those who would berate me for refusing to collaborate with the Covid theatre that is “the vaccine”.
The first – if the vaccine works, why would anyone else who chose to get it remotely care whether or not I did?
The second – if the vaccine doesn’t work, why on earth would I want to get it?
The biggest contradiction for the vaccine brigade, and the governments depending on the vaccine to deliver them their political escape is that, for the ninety-nine plus per cent of the population who completely recover from a dose of Covid, the vaccine is simply a placebo. The vast bulk of people, T-cell protected, immune, asymptomatic and healthy, do not remotely need a vaccine. This would, of course, be far more widely known and debated were at least working journalists found to be doing their jobs.
Although the science on Covid vaccines is not settled, the latest (non-peer reviewed) evidence suggests that it “may” slow the spread. It may relieve the symptoms of those who catch it. That is all. There are lots of “mays” here. The vast majority of those who have died from or with Covid have been done in by their (often) multiple co-morbidities and their advanced age. What is the likelihood of a vaccine saving these lives if it doesn’t actually guarantee the prevention of infection?
I had Measles, Chicken Pox, German Measles (twice), Whooping cough and more when <12 as did my brother. It was bed & sleep, nothing more. Mum or Dad popped in at lunchtime to check and feed. You seem overwrought and fearful about nothingburgers
Back to Friday
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I'm not saying they are correct or wrong, correlation not causation. However, the rapid spikes in deaths post vaccination worldwide when deaths decreasing suggests there is a likely link, but Gov't and regulated msm burying bad news "for the greater good"
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Cost effective: vaccinated everyone for a virus with an IFR of 0.01 (and 0.003 in <20) – we don't do it for 'Flu as it's not cost effective. It's a political decision to try and dig their way out of their hole
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It's all the usual 'could, may, might' fear mongering
Viruses naturally mutate to being more infectious and less-fatal (self preservation) – unless we interfere as we did with Spanish Flu and now with SARS-Cov-2
Two Articles
Dr Mark Shaw calls on Medics to stake a stand for medical ethics, especially in regard to vaccines, in the Conservative Woman
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/its-time-for-medics-to-speak-out-about-unethical-virus-policy/
Follow the Politics, Not the Science
https://lockdownsceptics.org/follow-the-politics-not-the-science/
@FH
Sabbath – NP
Thanks
Fahrenheit211 | March 4, 2021 at 7:47 am
First of all anti vaxxers are a massive public health problem. They are why awful diseases that once were not seen in the USA are coming back.
No they are not. The only risk is to unvaccinated, not to vaccinated public
But what about the people who cannot be vaccinated? Those on chemotherapy or who have suppressed immune systems? There are dangers to unvaccinated people from diseases. This is why for the first eight weeks of my child’s life we had to be extra careful about exposing him to disease as he could not be vaccinated for most nasties until eight weeks old.
Anti-vax? No, pro freedom of choice, the anti-vax label is ‘hate speech’ – especially on Covid Jab. By implying all refusing Covid Jab are nutters you are evil. Many Doctors, Dentists, Vets, Nurses are saying No (20%-40%) – are they nutters?
I’m in favour of freedom of choice and I’m morally uneasy about mandatory vaccines but the point is vaccines work. Vaccines is how Smallpox has been eliminated and how Polio is well on its way to being gone. Refusal to vaccinate against things like MMR or Polio or Diptheria is looking increasingly irrational. I’m not saying that the vaccine refusing nurses are nutters but they may have made their decision based on shonky information or rumours or some other reason not based on medical science. Medics are not robots, they make wrong decisions sometimes.
I always have two simple questions for those who would berate me for refusing to collaborate with the Covid theatre that is “the vaccine”.
The first – if the vaccine works, why would anyone else who chose to get it remotely care whether or not I did?
To protect those who cannot be vaccinated for one and to stop the spread and mutation of a virus that would be another.
The second – if the vaccine doesn’t work, why on earth would I want to get it?
As time goes on there is more and more evidence coming in that whilst there may be concerns that it is not 100% effective, it is at least partially effective and that’s better than nothing.
The biggest contradiction for the vaccine brigade, and the governments depending on the vaccine to deliver them their political escape is that, for the ninety-nine plus per cent of the population who completely recover from a dose of Covid, the vaccine is simply a placebo. The vast bulk of people, T-cell protected, immune, asymptomatic and healthy, do not remotely need a vaccine. This would, of course, be far more widely known and debated were at least working journalists found to be doing their jobs.
I keep hearing this ‘99% recovery rate’ number bandied about and for a long time I believed this but as time has gone on and more data has come in then this 99% claim is looking more wrong. Our World In Data is stating that the UK IFR is between 3% and 4% which is a number that is much more worrying.
https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid
Although the science on Covid vaccines is not settled, the latest (non-peer reviewed) evidence suggests that it “may” slow the spread. It may relieve the symptoms of those who catch it. That is all. There are lots of “mays” here. The vast majority of those who have died from or with Covid have been done in by their (often) multiple co-morbidities and their advanced age. What is the likelihood of a vaccine saving these lives if it doesn’t actually guarantee the prevention of infection?
I agree that most of those who have died from covid have had co-morbidities. However because of those conditions these people are in more danger of death than those without such conditions. Even if the vaccine is less than 100% effective say for example 70% effective, it’s still better for the person with CM’s to have the vaccine as it gives them a better chance of survival than contracting the disease.
I had Measles, Chicken Pox, German Measles (twice), Whooping cough and more when <12 as did my brother. It was bed & sleep, nothing more. Mum or Dad popped in at lunchtime to check and feed. You seem overwrought and fearful about nothingburgers
Measles is not a minor illness, it’s highly contagious much more so than covid and although its death rate is 2:1000 it can cause deafness in many more. Chickenpox is less deadly but in the UK we don’t routinely vaccinate against it. My son got chickenpox and still carries scars from it. Rubella can cause birth defects, Mumps causes sterility in male adults and I nearly lost a baby cousin to whooping cough as his parents did not have him vaccinated because of an unfounded vaccine scare that was going about at the time. When covid first appeared I treated it somewhat less seriously but as time has gone on and I’ve had it myself and encountered those who have had it and seen the death toll rise I’ve had to revise my views.
Got to go and get the Laughing Boy up for school now so I will address the other stuff later on.
Reply continued. LB delivered to school safely.
Back to Friday
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I’m not saying they are correct or wrong, correlation not causation. However, the rapid spikes in deaths post vaccination worldwide when deaths decreasing suggests there is a likely link, but Gov’t and regulated msm burying bad news “for the greater good”
Whilst the possiblity of the govts MSM lying to the public should not be completely discounted, from what I’ve seen the spikes in deaths are in cohorts who are near death anyway or are in environments such as carehomes where a large number of deaths could be expected anyway. When I’ve dug into these reports the scare stories about mass vaccine deaths always seem to originate with alternative medicine or anti vaccination sites. When I looked on the Science Based Medicine site and dug down and found this article, it solidified my view that deaths after vaccination may be more coincidental than causal. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/covid-19-vaccines-as-dangerous-continue-apace-vaers-edition/
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Cost effective: vaccinated everyone for a virus with an IFR of 0.01 (and 0.003 in <20) – we don't do it for 'Flu as it's not cost effective. It's a political decision to try and dig their way out of their hole
I have little doubt that in this situation the politics is poisoning the science and it is being done on both sides. The problem is as I stated earlier is that covid does not have an IFR of 0.1 or less,in the UK it is much higher than that and in countries with more economic and social challenges the IFR is 27%. A vaccine will nearly always be more cost effective than the provision of expensive treatment for diseases. Of course there is a great deal to worry about when it comes to politicians exploiting covid for their own ends and to promote their own policies but we have a very real disease causing very real harm.
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It’s all the usual ‘could, may, might’ fear mongering
Viruses naturally mutate to being more infectious and less-fatal (self preservation) – unless we interfere as we did with Spanish Flu and now with SARS-Cov-2
Viruses don’t always mutate into something less harmful. A lot of times they do but not always. If I was a virologist I’d be keeping a close eye on intensive broiler chicken farms as it’s quite possible that it is from one of these farms with lots of meat chickens kept very close together a new form of Avian flu might emerge. You are correct that human activity has intensified the spread of viruses. The 1918/1919 flu pandemic might have confined itself to the far east where it probably originated were it not for the massive movements of troops and support staff during WWI. Similarly the globalised export world and supply chain along with much more international travel has probably assisted the spread of sars cov 2. One of the lessons that I hope will be learned from this situation is that nations need to be more self sufficient in terms of medical supplies and non medical stuff like masks and gowns along with having a greater willingness to close borders quickly when new diseases raise their heads.
@F
Internet chat?
The video is BBC News, it was broadcast on BBC, C4, C5, ITV & Sky TV channels and around world. That fulfils your “address the public directly on prime time television” and is why it garnered so much msm reporting and criticism
Criticism: Yes, The Queen, PM or celebs should NOT be pressuring personal on medical procedures and technically they are breaking law as not qualified to give medical advice
The only person advising you, not persuading, on vaccine is your GP
HM Queen using ‘selfish’ is coercion
@Fahrenheit211 | March 8, 2021 at 6:58 am
Re: Your lengthy reply. Too much to address now. Will address some tomorrow